@BHBEnjoyer @CarnivoreIs @vniskasa @DrPlantel You know you can subgroup a cohort to look at a specific sample. Particularly those w/out other cardiovascular risk factors. https://t.co/6CGYpLPFAT https://t.co/5wWWVCBGIt
@theproof JK plantboy you’ve probably read it many times, it the DENIERS WORST NIGHTMARE! That and the LA VETERANS TRIAL! This CHART is in the SUPPLEMENTAL MATERIAL! PERIOD! https://t.co/ZF4RNcj30P
@RDhealthwealth @SentientBlobBob It's not healthy to have elevated total cholesterol or LDL-levels https://t.co/H2vRVNLYLd https://t.co/HvkBqyYrZQ we even have mendelian randomizations https://t.co/UUEdbQ6dNc
@jpegan10 @DavidMe17661988 Where've you been? This has been demonstrated already in insulin-sensitive populations https://t.co/ywK54DCxO6 https://t.co/GogAZ3Soar
@drpablocorral @DudzLightLime @lipo_fan @Griffith17431 Compare Pesa IR vs Pesa LDL (or to CARDIA). Approx 3x risk of CAC in Pesa IR (39%) vs Pesa LDL (15%) at same age of approx 45. Note Pesa LDL with the intention to exclude IR still contained 20% pre-di
@BHBEnjoyer @DavidMe17661988 LDLc concentration predicts the presence and multiterritorial extent of atherosclerosis per standard deviation increase, even in individuals w/ risk factors in the optimal range (no hypertension, no diabetes, etc.) https://t.c
@markml0528 @puddleg @PeterFaberSP @realDaveFeldman @ethanjweiss @nicknorwitz A dose response strengthens an inference for a causal relationship. https://t.co/SAAqrPZMAk
@William10874873 @DavidMe17661988 @ChiefJohnBoy In those without CVD risk factors it does still matter https://t.co/4MO8wqKcZy
Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors https://t.co/225diiu0Jk https://t.co/1aZN3ZhSoE
@bcencio @jerryteixeira @MohammedAlo You still see LDL-C reflect atherosclerosis even in cohorts with low inflammation, no IR, etc., so it’s not true that it’s fine in those contexts. https://t.co/6CGYpLPFAT The Oreo thing just sounds like a non sequitur
@TuckerGoodrich @MohammedAlo That’s the study: https://t.co/hlxlpJpsJj
@JKFlyshhFresher @ElieJarrougeMD That’s the study. Look at the CVRF-optimal PESA population. I am in this group as well having high LDL-C and optimal all other biomarkers. https://t.co/Sv5pfdZhtS
@CaloriesProper That’s the study he’s referring to: https://t.co/hlxlpJpsJj
@thoroughlyconf1 @MohammedAlo That’s the study he’s referring to: https://t.co/hlxlpJpsJj
@PeterJAnderson_ @mario_kratz @NikosNoulezas @LDLSkeptic Even "Normal LDL-Cholesterol Levels Are Associated With Subclinical Atherosclerosis in the Absence of Risk Factors". https://t.co/Zw9kC11qRi Of course things are worse if you have other risk factors
@SBakerMD According to this study you have 30% chance of developing atherosclerosis anyway. https://t.co/VgLHc71La5 I wish you were right. My lipids, my glucose, insulin, all is perfect apart from LDL-C, but after listening to @Drlipid and @NutritionMade
@Hezerminator @DavidMe17661988 @carniyogi That's not true. See the PESA cohort. LDL-C still predicts the presence of atherosclerosis even in the absence of other risk factors - low hs-CRP, low blood sugar, low blood pressure, etc. https://t.co/6CGYpLPFAT h
@Unsettled_USA @YYCREGuy @SBakerMD Why would it matter that they have normal LDL? The relationship between LDL and ASCVD extends into the normal range with lower levels leading to lower risk. Car accident risk decreases as speed decreases but accidents can
@ThelastStyleb16 @drdrew I’m claiming LDL itself causes endothelial dysfunction. I mentioned this because you said atherosclerosis requires endothelial dysfunction suggesting high LDL alone isn’t sufficient. We could also look to this study https://t.co/r
Data > Diet Validation [1] https://t.co/NCy6yRRvSf [2] https://t.co/TzP2tWYxnc [3] https://t.co/agHVeMXjK6 @drpablocorral @Drlipid @DrNadolsky
@LewisWithrow5 @ElieJarrougeMD If you mean to suggest that LDL-C doesn’t predict atherosclerosis outside of the context of hyperinsulinemia, see the PESA cohort, bc that’s false. https://t.co/6CGYpLPFAT Statins reduce risk. So do PCSK9 inhibitors and bile
@BretBauer17 @disabusednyc @nykx @theliamnissan I’m not talking about dietary cholesterol, but dietary saturated fat (which are abundant in steak and butter) being correlated to LDL, and therefore CVD. https://t.co/llxzsVOx9V https://t.co/vW3Kk4xM7r
@fellowshipnate @LORASHIEL @ScepticalDoctor Seems to be a bunch of red herrings. Even when stratified by HDL-C, LDL-C independently associates w/ risk. See the PESA cohort -https://t.co/KYgJ6ZYqSG HDL-C itself doesn't seem to be protective. This is divul
RT @DrAlanDesmond: @kevinawanderer @SBakerMD @veganuary With an LDL of 150 mg/dl you have a greater than 60% risk of atherosclerosis. Not g…
@joecanti @PiaJSigler @bigfatsurprise We’ll hang on, this question has already been answered. We know that LDL is associated with CVD risk in individuals with no other risk factors. So we can demonstrate that your hypothesis has been disproven in this case
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
RT @EstebanDL: ¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de idea…
¿Cuándo LDL está elevado? HILO Para la visión clásica, SIEMPRE LDL está elevado porque, nuestro CLASIFICADOR mental de ideas, fue tallado con un mantra creado por la industria que vende antídoto "LDL CUANTO MAS PRECOZMENTE BAJO MEJOR" ¿Es esto verdad? SE
@EstebanDL @gonzaeperez @siacprevent @DrPontecarlosi @ezeforte @DrMauricioGon @mariofitzm @SeguraCardio @DrMarthaGulati @ErinMichos Gracias por la discusión @gonzaeperez ! @EstebanDL: puedes definir “LDL elevado”? https://t.co/VGTUufUh9U
@TimTrippDesign @bigfatsurprise Just for lols though, even though I don’t have to, here’s a study that features a large number of people with atherosclerosis despite an average TG of 68 and HDL of 53.5. So yeah, that hypothesis doesn’t pan out in reality.
LDL-C was independently associated with atherosclerosis presence and extent, in even those with other optimal risk factors, such as blood pressure and fasting glucose 2/3 @MohammedAlo @paulsaladinomd https://t.co/drOsGEnt6b https://t.co/orRDIvu6dT
@ascentovalhalla @TheNutrivore @paulsaladinomd @MohammedAlo @FatEmperor 1) thanks for being honest 2)https://t.co/3lD7KgSJ7i 3) Lowering LDL will help them. This is supported by a massive amount of data. What evidence are you using to claim lowering TGs
@BHBEnjoyer @aCarnivoreDiet All good points, and I appreciate the discussion. Given that atherosclerotic burden increases proportionally to greater LDL concentrations in even healthy adults, apoB must penetrate in proportion to serum concentration, be it p
@paleocarnivore @waltoshi @realDaveFeldman The data just doesn’t agree with you: https://t.co/mFI52v5mBU & https://t.co/WiYdO8poZ1?
RT @NutritionMadeS3: the PESA study showed a dose-dependent relationship between LDL-cholesterol level and plaque, *even in the absence of…
@NutritionMadeS3 @vit_amindee @Drlipid What evidence have you seen? The only study I've seen is this: https://t.co/6DjY3owrGX But with an average BMI of 25 that's a very lenient definition of healthy. I'd also like to know if there's any data on fit popu
@ZahcM Also reminds me of PESA subclinical athero / LDL study which supposedly excluded the IR (despite ridiculous exclusion cut-offs). N=2 in the lowest LDL group proves they are immune. https://t.co/8YCxTki9AH https://t.co/fPsgdOSPVq
Espero que os haya gustado este primer hilo (doble) de 2023 😀. Os dejo la numerosa bibliografía usada: https://t.co/DSoWQeXARg https://t.co/X69Nbg0cyO https://t.co/LBMx0IhUDW https://t.co/i5NtgaXAbG Nelson tratado de pediatría 21ª edición. Capítulo 104, 73
@ThelastStyleb16 @Lpa_Doc I think that in healthy adults without other risk factors, LDL had a linear risk with atherosclerosis. This and other data suggest that <70 mg/dL eliminates risk in healthy adults, which lines up with the concentrations of mode
@EstebanDL Qué pensas de este tipo de estudios? Personas sin factores de riesgo, niveles de LDL correlacionan con nivel de aterosclerosis... no es esperable más eventos en el largo plazo a más LDL? Pregunto honestamente https://t.co/nstnYnrUcc https://t.co
RT @SBakerMD: Now show the graph that superimposes elite VO2 max, perfect blood pressure and Zero CAC scan onto this and you’ll find a very…
RT @DrAlanDesmond: @kevinawanderer @SBakerMD @veganuary With an LDL of 150 mg/dl you have a greater than 60% risk of atherosclerosis. Not g…
RT @SBakerMD: Now show the graph that superimposes elite VO2 max, perfect blood pressure and Zero CAC scan onto this and you’ll find a very…
RT @SBakerMD: Now show the graph that superimposes elite VO2 max, perfect blood pressure and Zero CAC scan onto this and you’ll find a very…
RT @SBakerMD: Now show the graph that superimposes elite VO2 max, perfect blood pressure and Zero CAC scan onto this and you’ll find a very…
RT @SBakerMD: Now show the graph that superimposes elite VO2 max, perfect blood pressure and Zero CAC scan onto this and you’ll find a very…
RT @SBakerMD: Now show the graph that superimposes elite VO2 max, perfect blood pressure and Zero CAC scan onto this and you’ll find a very…
RT @SBakerMD: Now show the graph that superimposes elite VO2 max, perfect blood pressure and Zero CAC scan onto this and you’ll find a very…
Now show the graph that superimposes elite VO2 max, perfect blood pressure and Zero CAC scan onto this and you’ll find a very different result -or do you think there is only one risk factor for cardiovascular disease?
@kevinawanderer @SBakerMD @veganuary With an LDL of 150 mg/dl you have a greater than 60% risk of atherosclerosis. Not good. @SBakerMD is way to the right of this graph. https://t.co/YLz1LfU5hh https://t.co/7K4DWAqYlf
@nfn80 @paulmelzer1 @Team_Xtremee @lowcarbGP @LDLSkeptic @KenDBerryMD @DoctorTro @ifixhearts @DrScottMurray @bschermd @DrAseemMalhotra @lowcarb_aus @BrownAdey @AdrianSotoMota Atherosclerosis with no insulin resistance or other risk factors. It’s LDL/ApoB
@drfherediaz @SaulNutri @EstebanDL @LoriShemek @KristenJakobitz @DrKristieLeong @CeciliaArteag @doctorheart00 4/7) el daño causado. NO para causar daño. De hecho, este estudio demostró que el ~50% de las personas *SIN* factores de riesgo cardiovasculares
@FatAngryBoomer1 @ZackStrength ""High" LDL is irrelevant unless its probably at least >160 total." Not true. Even in the LDL group of 110-120 almost 50% had subclinical atherosclerosis. The lower you have it the better in terms of cardiovascular diseas
@fvrmix @Tellit007 @ntapia @nutrition_facts This one does. The effect is still observable even in the absence of insulin resistance. https://t.co/CwA7gNRDmJ
@dnarunner That’s not how it works. LDL-c is associated with atherosclerotic plaque even with no other risk markers such as heightened inflammation https://t.co/nsPQm45yYo
@nicknorwitz @ClausCarlsen1 @Nope53640754 @moomoolabiff @javvta @LDLSkeptic @DoctorTro @BrianLenzkes What would convince you elevated ApoB is sufficient? https://t.co/nsPQm45yYo
@Tom_Babington1 @MyNutritionSci @kevinstock12 @dr_cois @RPuddick @MattMadore576 From "Normal LDL" PESA. A1c highest OR in multivariate model. Fig 2. https://t.co/OeBbdBQ3cY https://t.co/171PQLfloq
5/8 The icing on the cake is that there is still a dose-dependent relationship between LDL-C and ASCVD observed in younger populations that have optimized the risk factors you mentioned. It's not clear at all how this is more expected on your hypothesis.
@Stylebe61776462 @DBelardoMD And yet we still see that LDL tracks atherosclerosis in the absence of those risk factors. Looks like it's best to treat all factors and not ignore the one that just so happens to be negatively impacted by certain dietary pract
@thoroughlyconf1 @NutritionMadeS3 This gets close to what you're asking for. Even after accounting for virtually all known risk factors, LDL still independently associates with atheroma volume. https://t.co/CwA7gO9MAR
@Regenarian @ScepticalDoctor https://t.co/V6XUnph7i6 This is a superior version of Dave's study as it analysed how different levels LDL-C associates with atherosclerotic plaque in the absence of other risk factors.
@PrimaryCarePAC Are we looking at the same paper? Slightly different. https://t.co/yPnue74GR2 https://t.co/knOgM65p2f
@lansberg @Drlipid Please stop abusing the PESA CVRF graphic. 89% had zero CAC. https://t.co/tGvzBF3c4j "Overall, 46.7% had peripheral atherosclerotic plaques: 22.7% in the carotid arteries, 17.2% in the infrarenal aorta, and 30.1% in the iliofemoral arte
@holmanm The authors weakly dismiss this study that applies to me. LDL-C independently associated with atherosclerosis. Your thoughts? https://t.co/RUNwAEAUpo